Reality Check – Psychosis (A Sister’s Experience)

Ashley: I'm Dr. Ashley Weiss, I'm a child adolescent psychiatrist. And I'm

Serena: Serena Chaudry. I'm a clinical social worker.

Ashley: And we are the co founders of Epic NOLA, which is an early psychosis intervention clinic in New Orleans. And also the co founders of CALM, Clear Answers to Louisiana Mental Health.

Serena: So, uh, we'll go ahead and get started. If you'd like to just talk a little bit about how you, um, that your sort of entry into this world upon your brother's diagnosis and what that experience was like for you at the outset.

Guest: Yeah, sure. Hi. So the first thing I'll say is it wasn't like a black and white before and after.

Guest: Um, you know, when, and, and also in myself, um, like I've had my own mental health challenges and, you know, it's really easy, like to see somebody having a hard time. I'm thinking it's something like it's only depression. And so I had seen my brother struggling for a long time before this. And maybe some of it was really, I don't like, I don't even know.

Guest: Um, maybe some of it was unrelated, but it was kind of like. There were a couple times where one starts to think, wait, what he's saying doesn't make sense or this is not just depression or is, you know, different than like, I don't know, bipolar. Like I had a friend with bipolar before, um, so I knew that.

Guest: And so, I don't know, but I think my brother has been very deliberate with what he's told me. So I like, don't even know what his diagnosis is, for instance, and like, I completely respect that. And he wants to like, you know, keep different things of his life, like separate into different buckets. But I knew it was clear, like, when he started getting treated by you all, it was clear that there was like, a discrete change in how he was.

Guest: It's been harder on my other family, like my mother, and so sometimes I don't know how to help. I also don't live in the same city, um, and so I would see these, see it only on occasion. And hear about it from just like, you know, what, whatever my mother would tell me, which she didn't tell me everything, but you know, a little bit, but I did see it on a few occasions, my brother, like experiencing something that was probably psychosis, like that.

Ashley: Yeah.

Serena: You said something that I thought sounded familiar and not necessarily something that happens all of a sudden for many reflecting on the experience of psychosis.

Serena: There, there, there's a buildup. There's this, there's changes over time. And I think looking back, many people can see that. And I think I appreciate the fact that you too can look back on what has been a long journey and see that it wasn't just one day that something was different, that the changes were happening over time.

Serena: And for those. for everybody, right? A grounding presence, a calm presence in the moment of heightened emotion and or psychotic symptoms can be amazingly grounding. And so I think that is important to highlight as well.

Guest: Yeah, that's definitely something I learned was good. I don't live with my brother, but I try to like, visit and just, like, be a normal, regular presence as much as I can.

Guest: I think like sometimes he's like I need privacy, so you know, anything I can do that does help is good.

Ashley: Yeah. I think that like a lot of, and I hear from a lot of. And I mean, just my own personal experience, like we want to like, I think it's our human nature to want to like, do something, do something different, do something to help.

Ashley: But then when you weigh that against your relationship with someone where it's your sibling, I might be that person's doctor, but I as the doctor need for the mother, for the brother, the sister, the people that are. constant in their life to still be those roles and not go into this, like, fix it role, like, let in, because it makes the person feel more singled out.

Ashley: It's not about being supportive, it's just like that I'm continuing in this brother sister thing. Like, yes, things have changed, but we can still just hang out and I don't have to be treated like a sick person. You know, you mentioned like the kind of the other ring of schizophrenia in the world and It's so unfortunate that we have to be careful that our own interactions don't become that too, especially where you're supposed to be most comfortable, you know, which is often at home.

Ashley: Always, but often.

Guest: You realize that this is like a type of thing that the brain can do. It exists for real in the world. And that kind of shifts your perspective a bit.

Ashley: It's not just like in the movies and you mentioned earlier, kind of before we started, before we started doing the podcast, we were just checking in about like the kind of dramatic archetypes that exist out there that lay psychosis and it's, um, It makes it feel further away.

Serena: The disease is the disease and the brain does this thing to protect the human, right? In these you know, symptoms or defenses. And anyway, in the book, there's a lot of very, from my perspective, um, familiar comments made by families and siblings and the pain and the, the isolation that families feel, the, um, stigma that they experience when trying to manage and protect their family member who's struggling.

Guest: Yeah, um, well, let's see. I guess I could start first with, like, I've, like, definitely gone to therapy myself to work out, you know, both me stuff, and then also, like, where are the boundaries to draw, because normal wisdom about boundaries is, I don't think it always applies in specific, but it. Uh, like, I feel like I have to customize the understanding of boundaries to like this situation to apply like the concept without giving up something I care about.

Guest: She's taking her tech. Like, I think she took this course to this workshop. And by the way, that's the, uh, University of Washington spirit lab, I think. Yeah. The psychosis. Yeah. Yes. Yes. That's it. And after I took it, I started giving, I found that advice applicable, not just in my family, but in my professional life and friends.

Guest: Uh, I've certainly had a little sleep deprivation hallucinations and that kind of thing. So people experience these things on a spectrum. And I started realizing, oh, when my friend confides in me that he doesn't know how to talk to his wife, she's being unreasonable or whatever. That's awesome. Like, you know, that has nothing to do with psychosis, but like, it's, uh, a lot of the advice in that workshop is similar to how you would approach that kind of situation, I think.

Guest: It's, I just find that interesting.

Serena: I think that's cool. And I think it's a good plug for, um, the psychosis REACH program for listeners. I think it's a great resource and a tool that's applicable to siblings, uh, caretakers who have people experiencing psychosis in their life, but tools that can be extrapolated.

Serena: Yeah.

Ashley: reinvent the wheel and create some complicated way. You know, it's like someone's anxious if someone felt, you know, fell and broke their leg or if they complain of an upset stomach, you'd be like, ah, you know, how are we going to, what can we do to like help you feel better? You know, it's not something magical that comes along with it.

Guest: right?

Serena: And yeah, listen, which is I think with something you've highlighted So I think you know in wrapping up I was Curious or am curious, what advice or words of wisdom you might offer to a sibling who has someone in their lives, another a sibling, I don't know why I'm tripping on the word sibling, diagnosed with or experiencing the first episode of psychosis or diagnosed with a psychotic disorder.

Serena: What advice might you give to someone?

Guest: Uh, that the old hymn started coming back and that was awesome. So like, don't give up faith, I guess? The other thing is that it can last for a while. Yeah. And so that can fuel you into thinking like it's permanent or something. Um, you kind of have to be patient and if something hits you really hard, just it's going to pass.

Guest: And when it passes, just like take a breath of fresh air or something, it'll pass and it might happen again. This is like really bumpy, but don't lose faith that your loved one is still, is still there. And. Needs you and maybe you need them. I've have always Benefited enormously from my relationship with my brother and when he gets back to himself that just goes on

Ashley: So yeah, have you ever struggled with like taking things personally?

Guest: Yeah, this might be why when I said it wasn't, you know, this isn't easy, but for me, it's been a little easier because I, I don't live all the time with him and, um, because of our age difference, I was in college when he was in high school or whatnot, but.

Guest: Literally, like a disease behind this, that this, this is a really weird disease because it like messes with belief and intent and such. Right. So you have to recognize that, that he has in the past said, said something and then dropped it the next day or something. And I'm thinking way back. This was like when he was.

Guest: And saying something that I don't mean, um, relationships would not be possible if everybody took those types of things personally all the time. It's, it's hard. I don't know. I

Serena: think you highlighted and shared some really important pieces of advice or things that you've learned and the reality is, right, the person that you love is still there.

Serena: This is an illness. It's just a mask at times, um, but to not lose faith in the reality that, um, The person you love is still there. Well, thank you so much for joining us today. Thank you for being with us. Thank you for sharing your journey.

Ashley: Yeah, I really appreciate it. And, you know, appreciate always hearing, you know, about your presence, um, along the journey.

Guest: I respect my mom like like a lot Wow like Yeah, I'm, I'm glad that, you know, I can help and like, yeah, it goes back to that.

Serena: Anyway, yeah

Serena: Until next time thanks for taking the time to get your reality check and remember Psychosis is real, so is recovery.

Ashley: If you have enjoyed this episode or found it useful, please subscribe wherever you get your podcasts from and check out the website, calmnola. org.