Ep. 24 – Reality Check – Sage Hadley (Student Volunteer)

All right, good afternoon, everybody. It's Serena.

and Ashley.

And we're excited to have you back today on Reality Check. And we're here today with a really special guest, Sage Hadley. Sage and I met almost a year ago, actually. You approached me after I gave a talk with Tripp Friedler at the New Orleans Book Festival. And you came up to talk to us about Calm and the work you're doing.

And now a year later, you're involved, you've done some volunteering. Tell us a little, tell our listeners a little bit about you, who you are and what drew you to Calm and that conversation a year ago.

Awesome. I am a psychology major at Tulane and I got into psychology by my own experiences. COVID, I saw a lot of people go through a lot of struggles. And last year I had an assignment to go to a book fest and I saw The Tunnel, which is the book being written. And when I went, I just really loved everything that was being talked about and

The analogy of holding your breath as you're in a tunnel was what he told us about. And I really just related with that. And also the stigma around mental health, I think can be really hard. And I think it'd be really hard for people who are struggling to necessarily talk about it and get help because they may be scared about what other people think. And hearing about calm and the awareness around a topic that often is very stigmatized and

often is thought to be totally like life altering, which is true, but I think that people should know that these are people that can function and they can have lives. And I just really related to that and really wanted to like be a part of something like that. I found it just so inspiring.

That's amazing. I was a psychology major too at Loyola. ⁓ So what are your plans with your psychology degree?

Awesome.

So I really want to go into adverse trauma and specifically the idea of treating it. I think that sometimes people think that people that have had pretty bad trauma that may have led them to pretty severe mental health struggles, even psychosis at times. I think that people often think that that kind of childhood damage they may have had is kind of unfixable. But personally, I think that anyone

can improve with help and guidance. So I really want to get into that. I've also thought a bit about forensics, kind of being called maybe to stand to talk about someone or even if it's a traumatic event and there's a child involved, being able to get those statements from the child without further traumatizing them. So I've always found that super interesting. watched a pod, I watched a documentary about it and I saw

people that were called in for those interviews and the way they did it with drawing. And I found it so interesting how there's so many routes to understand the way someone's thinking more than just verbal. so, yeah, I'm very passionate about working with trauma and treatment.

That's awesome. We definitely need more people who are passionate and compassionate and working with people who have had our hard lives. And we just had this great conversation with one of our mentors, Dr. Michael Garrett. The conversation was all about trauma and its role in ⁓ psychotic disorders. So we're excited to have you join the field as you progress in your studies. Can you tell us a little bit about what you are doing now in regards to your studies as students?

for sure.

and how you've been volunteering with COM.

so currently as a student, am, you know, exploring all routes of psychology. When you're in college, you can't exactly focus anywhere, but I am taking developmental psychology classes. Currently I'm taking adolescent psych. I'm also looking for a research lab to get involved in that. And, ⁓ I may intern at an art therapy, ⁓ clinic this summer, which is super cool.

with calm, I, ⁓ at the beginning of the year, we had this event where we set up tables and people could come and they could draw, they could paint, they could just chat about things. And with that, we had signs up and we would give them pamphlets and try to educate them on psychosis and just showing that like, there's always a positive environment. No matter where you are, you can always find it. And so we wanted people to, you know, in their

stressful day, take a break, draw with us. And basically I just sat there and I did some watercolor painting with everyone. I helped set up. It was super cool. Got to meet lots of people.

So I'm curious, what was your experience like talking to students, peers, about psychosis? I don't know how in depth the conversation's got, but I'm just curious, how did it feel for you and what was that experience like?

I'd say when I talked to students about it, it can be often not taken very seriously. think there's always that term like, yeah, people are crazy. They're psychotic. ⁓ but there's it's that term is used so casually, I think. And so as I did tell people about it more, it was very cool to see them also kind of their perspective change and the way they talked about it and approached it.

⁓ But I definitely noticed that like people can joke about it a little and take it less seriously, which is why I really want to show people that this is something serious. It's not a joke. People aren't just, you know, crazy, but people, that's what a lot of people think. And it was really cool to be able to tell people about it and see their perspectives shift. And they became more open to the topic and the conversation. I could see them get more comfortable as we talked about it more.

which is super cool. But that's what I would say was like the main thing I noticed when I was talking to people. But then people would also talk about their own experiences, not necessarily with psychosis, but with mental health and how having calm and seeing like the advocacy really showed them that that stigma can be broken down and they can find people, which I think was amazing.

That's super cool and I think that your ability to see that transformation just in the context of a conversation is super powerful. And I'm wondering just to dig a little deeper, do you have any insight about what it is you think that helped them reflect a little and or transform their perspective?

I would say letting them say their part, what they thought was good, because they knew I was listening to their perspective. And when I responded, instead of criticizing their views, I kind of was like, I understand where you're coming from. And that is an often portrayal of the topic, but I think that this is a big part of it.

as I was saying that, then they would respond to me. And it was instead of a kind of, this is what I think, this is what you should think. It was more of a, let's grow together on the topic and learn from each other. And I think that approaching it in that way made them more comfortable to be, you know, open about it. And so I'd say that was like my main approach when I did it. But at times it would also be like, if they were joking, you know, I could give a little giggle with them.

But then tell them it was serious. So they knew I wasn't, you know, being super overly serious about it and taking the conversation or like assuming anything about them as a person when they said their views. It was more like, I want to teach you about it and help you understand it versus tell you what it is, I guess.

love that you're volunteering and stepping outside of the classroom to do things, in the field. had my, my experiences that like confirmed I wanted to be a physician through like volunteer work, in college. And it just made it, a lot more fun to actually like get there like that, like through your own experience. So as you know,

Exactly.

Yeah.

College campuses are, I don't want to say one of our target populations, but sort of the age group where people's first episode of psychosis usually presents. And it's like you're saying, it's not to be scary. It's more to be like a realistic. ⁓ How would you, because it's been a long time since I was in college.

you

Yes.

If you were to sort of envision or have ideas about how to reach people your age on a serious topic, but also getting early intervention is the best thing that you could possibly do, even though, psychosis is pretty serious symptom. It usually indicates something serious is going on, but

getting help early, can get you back to school, things like that. How do you, would you suggest that we try to approach college campuses with not to bring fear, but also not to skirt the issue, but to, guess like Serena and I are always talking about how to get people to admit to themselves something really isn't right and then take the next step of

I need to share with someone that something's not right. Like, is the best approach right now?

asking for.

I would say right now, I mean, I think that after COVID, everyone is a lot more open to these discussions than they may have been in the past, because they may have seen their own friends struggle. I also think currently, as I mean, as I've seen in college, think drug abuse is on the rise a little bit in college campuses, which can play a big part in that kind of psychosis triggering for some people.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

I would say people do table on the street, McAllister Drive at times. So that tabling, people do stop by actually a lot. If you're handing pamphlets out, people love to always take something on their way to class. And I think that that's a great way. If they're reading about it, maybe they'll notice those similarities in themselves, or maybe they'll be like, wow, I really think maybe my friend might be going through this right now. Maybe I should.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

not necessarily confront them, but just tell them like, hey, you should check this out. I saw this today. I know you're struggling. It might be helpful to know that like there are people that specialize in this and can understand what you're going through. Even if you don't think this is what you have, it doesn't hurt to get, you know, another opinion, someone to talk to. So I think that, you know, tabling is a big way. It's I would say specifically Tulane, but I think other schools as well.

It's a big way that people get their either organization out or what they're trying to do. Also, there's little events that people throw, whether it's a dinner, where people can come and talk to people working with the business. And it's more of a casual scenario for people to engage in the topic versus something that's maybe like a conference. Students are less inclined to go to something like that.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

So it's finding

those opportunities where students don't feel a lot of pressure, but they also have the opportunity to connect with people and talk.

Right,

right. I like this idea of having like a student dinner and just like a chill, like a cookout or like a crawfish boil or something.

Yes.

So

Exactly.

Sage, there's a program at Tulane undergrad where they will take you guys with the shuttle. I remember my house was one of the places that about 13 or 14 students was delivered. They delivered them to me and they paid, Tulane paid for this dinner that, and it was about, it was kind of like a mentoring.

Yeah

Mm.

you know, people, ⁓ various Tulane faculty that do various things and for you to like come like share a meal with the students. And it was really amazing. It was fun. And there was a couple, you know, psychiatry or psychology interested students that, you know, but then I realized there was also too, just like an audience that was, you know, really curious about what

It is.

psychosis is and because they wanted to know like what I do, what do I do every day. But yeah, so there are I think I think that you're right that those kind of those kind of casual environments, you know, can offer a lot of a lot of things besides just like I need to find a mentor.

Yeah.

yeah. And if we find students who are genuinely interested in learning about psychosis, right, they are better equipped to go out and share, right, and educate friends, you know, express concern about someone who's having symptoms and then get them into care and then, right, that cycle can continue. So. ⁓

Exactly.

I like that idea. I think we should follow up and find this van that's going to deliver y'all. I think just recognizing the work, there's so much work to do on campus, right? Working across disciplines. Psychology has been an awesome supporter and partner with CALM. I know many of the students from the program have come to our events, have volunteered with us. And if we just take that group of people, right? And then try and find students in another.

For sure.

Definitely.

school and bring them on board, right? We can perpetuate the message and the education and I think simultaneously address stigma.

Exactly. I

think that there's psychology is on the rise for sure at schools. And I know that one friend may hear about this thing that they're interested in. And then they have friends that are also psychology, you know, interested or friends that are also interested in the topic, you know, that they've had good conversations with about it. Maybe they aren't, you know, planning to do that for their job, but they still want to know about the topic because they find it very interesting.

And not that many people really understand psychosis. I think it's kind of thought of as like a mental break, I guess. But no one really knows what the symptoms are, what it actually entails, what's going on in the person's brain at the time, and how it can be different in so many different cases. So I think that, yeah, having that scenario is like pretty good because I think that friends always will.

Mm-hmm.

You know, if one friend's like, this is really important to me, I think this is super cool, would you want to come? That's always a great way to get people on board too, because I think student community is huge.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah, yeah, I like these ideas. Thank you for sharing them. And I it gives us some food for thought. Any other ideas you have for Calm in terms of early, for our campaign and or work we can do with young people on campuses and off campuses.

Thanks

I think that definitely like little things, as I was saying, tabling, I'm not sure if they can do that necessarily because a lot of them are like student led organizations, but getting like a student organization because we have so many that maybe is interested in that to partner with and then they can table, spread the message. And then off campus, I think that everyone wants to get their hands on it.

student orgs.

and be a part of it. So a way to spread out the message, like this is an event we're having, we love volunteers, and then having maybe a form or something that students can sign up for and be like, yeah, this is what I'm really interested in. I'd love to do it. And then you can filter through that and be like, you would be really great for this for us at this event or something. But I think that would be a great way, even having a way to get your business put.

out to the school through emails and stuff. Students are always finding ways to get engaged and so I think that's a great way too.

Cool. Well, ⁓ mark your calendar. I believe our next big event is May 8th. ⁓ It's our...

I will. May 8th, I will

be here.

awesome. Tell your friends. Every Mind Matters is a community facing event that we have done for the past two years. ⁓ We're hoping to have it at the Broadmoor again this year and there are a bunch of different community organizations as well as people with lived experience and it's an awesome opportunity for students to get involved.

I will.

That is amazing.

Any other thoughts you want to share as we move towards wrapping

⁓ I'd just say anyone that's interested in the topic, even if they don't want to do it as a career, I think that it's really awesome and they should reach out to people to learn about it. There's nothing wrong with it, even if they aren't having the experience themselves just to learn. And then even psychology students, I think that they should explore their opportunities as much as they can.

get that hands-on experience, because it'll teach them a lot about themselves and about others and community and connection. And they can also explore maybe the fields within psychology that they may like. But I just think that that's a big thing. want my generation and just kids to just understand it's not a bad thing to go through it. It's not. It'll never be bad.

But it does mean you can get help and you can grow. And I think people should understand that if they can. And if they don't necessarily do research, it doesn't hurt.

I'm gonna be.

So I was curious if you were to, I guess, like speak to other students, because everybody's busy, right? And everybody has so many classes. And I know that.

College is not exactly easy. What kind of advice would you give peers about how to split your time, how to maintain a social life? I see you have a cup that says the boot on it. How to balance academics, socializing, but also the importance of getting involved in your community and how that helps with...

Yes, I do.

Yeah.

Like your own academic journey and how would you sell the importance of volunteering and community engagement?

I mean, I guess I'd say we have social life is great, but unless it's, you know, a special weekend like Mardi Gras that just happened, it'll happen again. You'll get to hang out with your friends again. So if there's that volunteer opportunity, take it because it also, I mean, we don't want to do everything for a resume, but it will help the resume in the end.

but also it'll give you a place to connect with people beyond your friends, because it's always nice to meet new people. And then you can maybe make new friends as well, have those connections. I also think with time management, I make lots of lists. I make so many lists for myself. And I give myself dates where I think I should be at this point in my list. And if I know I want to socialize, maybe this weekend, I'll be like, okay, I'm going to do this work.

ahead of time so that I can go do that. But I'd say volunteering. mean, it's just an amazing opportunity for everyone, and people often think of it as community service credits for, you know, school. But also, it's just an experience that you can have. It's just like going to a fair almost, but you're going to something you're interested in and something you can actually engage in with people. And I think that

understanding that you're actually going to be connecting in that volunteer opportunity, not just there to be there, definitely will help. And also once you go to one, you'll know if you like it or not. You can always, you know, decide you don't, you can always find a different one, but those organizations will teach you a lot and they will only help you. None of it will hurt you. So if you have the time, take it. And if you

Don't think that this is something you're gonna fully miss out on. This is something that'll never, if it's something that'll happen again, then take that opportunity, because you'll be able to see your friends again. You're at school with them. So I just think it's, yeah, I'd say that's my advice for it. That's what I've been doing. I was very scared about missing out until I finally did do it. And I realized, that was really fun. And honestly, I don't regret not going. But I do understand FOMO is a big thing.

Mm-hmm.

for this day and age.

I'd also say get off social media as much as you can. I know we love it, but I mean, that's where you're gonna find the opportunities when you're like looking at other things, you'll find like, whoa, that's super cool. And I could actually do something with it because people don't realize there's so many opportunities out there that they can take. And I think that just looking for it or just being open to it is great.

Just be open. I think it's always great to have an open mind to new things.

Yeah, I think that's cool. And it totally brings us first full circle. You know, you took the opportunity to get some extra credit go to this book festival, and then you created an opportunity based on what you heard and created your own volunteer opportunity for yourself. So ⁓ I'm so glad you did that. And I hope you inspire others to as well.

Exactly.

I hope so as well and I'm very

happy I did it.

Awesome. Well, thank you so much for being on Reality Check with us today and helping us spread the good word of calm.

Thank you.

Of course, it was great talking to you. Thank you for having me.

Yeah. ⁓

right, take care.

You too.